benchmark numbers though are notsufficient you'll see in this case theperformance on benchmarkseven better than that versus competitionlatest gen competitive productscompared to competition over competitionversus renoircomp all the competitions thecompetition competition nearestcompetitor all the competition the amd4800u is on the leftthe intel 11th gen platform is on therightover the ryzen 4 800u ryzen 4 800usystem versus amd's 4800uamd 4800 use system the amd 4800uis on the left and the intel 11th gencore system is on the rightbut of course we need to be aware of ourcompetition amd 4800u renoiris amd's current fastest integratedgraphics in the u seriestoday intel announced its new r7 4800ucpu which it compared against11th gen part from the competitionduring its presentationintel's 4800u what's upamd makes the 4800u andyand do you make the 4800 eu yeahwhy is intel talking about it so much soapparently amd makes the 4800u butthat didn't stop intel from talkingabout it a whole lot today in itspresentationintel got everybody on the edge of theirseat when it sentout a promissory note of quote somethingbig is comingand that was for september 2nd soeveryone waited for a few months andwith dozens of news articles writingabout intel's plans forsomething big happening in september wenow know what it was following nvidia'sbombastic announcementsthat dominated the media yesterday intelnow has something to say and that isthatit has a new logo and a new jinglebut there's also one other thing i hadto say unlike our imitators usingbenchmarks like cinebenchwhich has a really niche usefulness inreal lifewe set for ourselves a higher bar toensure we are really the best acrossindustry benchmarksthere we go that that sounds like intelbefore that this video is brought to youby thermal grizzlies conduct and notliquid metal conductor knot is whatwe've used in all of our liquid metaland d-lith thermal tests capable ofdropping cb thermals significantly whenreplacing the stock thermal interfacelower cpu thermals don't just allowbetter overclocks but also lower noiselevels because the transfer efficiencyis increasedthe mix of gallium and indium makes fora thermal conductivity of 73 watts permeter kelvinoutclassing traditional pastessignificantly learn more at the link inthe description belowso the most frustrating thing aboutintel's event today was that it has whatlooks to be anactually promising product which is itsnewlaptop silicon it's cpu and gpu siliconfor mobile devicesit might actually make an impact whereamd hasonly recently established a new footholdin the laptop marketthis is especially important for bothcompanies because the laptop marketplaceis a wider mainstream market that hasmuch greater potentialfor product sales than just diyenthusiasts for exampleand it's something that amd has reallystruggled to get into until recentlynow that andy has gotten into laptopdistributionit is also entering into the oem's listsof a brand with some credibility someonethey can trust to work withfor their products and not make theultimate seller of hp dell whoeverlooked bad for selling the product soandy's really established a strongfoothold hereand intel coming out with an actuallycompetitivecpu if only we knew the name of it intelas far as we could countonly actually fully named one of its newcpus oncewe even made a chart this is our attemptat a real world benchmark just likeintel wantedin our real world benchmark spanning onehour and 14 minutes of its video footageintel said amd 12 times by our accountit said 4 800 youeight times and it's had competition andconjugations or derivatives thereof27 times which is a 2 600 increaseover the amount of references to a fullintel 11th gen cpu namewe still don't know most of the namesbecause intel conceded its own names areterribleand resigned to calling them 11th gen ortiger lakethat'd be like if amd only ever calledit cpu's matisseinstead of constantly saying the name ofthe thing you actually buyfor quick reference we also benchmarkednvidia's keynote as a controlby our account nvidia referenced 37 3080and 309018 total times pascal got ninereferences for the previous genand 2080 and 2080 ti got a total of fivereferencesit had zero references to amd and theproductintel or intel product so there you gothere's your real world benchmarks ofmarketingand branding but intel has a chance hereto really hurt amdin that newly claimed segment becausethe numbers that they're putting up dolookcompelling but ultimatelyintel is presenting its information in away whichmakes the company lookinept at best or sleazy maybeat worst so we keep thisthis dead horse is it's pretty dead atthis point it'sit's been dead in our set background forabout a year now and still countingbut the dead horse can still take morebeatings and right now what intel reallyneeds to dois stop presenting things in such a waythat just isfueled with bitterness and hatredtowards its competitorand instead focus on its own damnproduct if intel has a productwhich is actually compelling and itseems like tiger lake iswhich by the way that's the name of theproduct we're talking about todayintel didn't mention it a whole lot butthey did keep talking about amdbut if they've got this thing that itcan competeit's just you would never really know itbecause of how jealous intel seems inits presentationso intel really pushed it's we havesomething big seriously announcementhardit was actually genuinely difficult tofind good coverage of the intel eventshortly afterward there wasn't much outthere most of the early coverage wasfrom financial press and even mainstreammedia like the big three-letterinitialism mediathat defines the news for non-techtopicsand all of them primarily talked aboutintel's new logoand its new design aesthetic intel hadan upbeat video with typefaces and fontchoices and color palettesit had a new cacophony of unpleasantbrass for its iconic jingleand the company did announce more but itwas hard to findand unfortunately the productannouncements again were absolutelyburiedby the discussion about amd's ownproducts sointel's something big was we think maybeprobably the 11th gen tiger lake cpus wewereexpecting a little bit all that hypewe're expecting a little bit morebut that appears to be what they weretalking about intel howeverseemed to have trouble remembering itsown product namethe amd 4800u is on the left the intel11th genplatform is on the right so that waspart of the presentation and despitestammering with the product's namepausing just long enough for those of uswhohave to stand on camera all the time andremember product names to recognize thedifficultyuntil then moved on to show whatactually looks to be potentiallycompetitive performance but it did soafter conceding to the name11th gen instead of what was it was likei7 1185 g7 and just wait till later inthe presentationwhere they show the power consumptionand power limits next to that so thenyou get the intel i71185 g7 or whatever it was for that partone five wpl1 or 15 watts power limitone either way though the claims in thispart were that it is quote two times asfastas the 4800 u in video rendering withquick sync thisuh two times as fast uhnomenclature is something that all threeof the big silicon companies use it'salwaysa bit of an odd marketing metricbecause from a benchmark presentationstandpoint the phrasing two times asfastdoesn't really mean anything but theirintent is it takes half as longbut you could also use multiplication iguess ifyou're not going to actually do any mathto make the numbers work but anyway youcan't acceleratetwo times against an arbitrary scale ina direction which is negative is kind ofwhat we're getting at but that's okayso we've seen similar igp performanceimprovements in rendering in the pastquick sync is not newintel does in fact have a genuine realadvantage or at least it did untilpremiere started working on the apu sideof things for amdin rendering and in working with adobesoftware to acceleratethe actions that can make use of an igpnow in some of our prior testing fromages past we have found many scenariosin complex software like adobe premierewhere the igp isn't universallyleveraged to quite this extentit's sort of like how the commoncomments right now for rtx cardsis about nvidia's own marketing claimshow the 3080 is quote 100faster in some specific applicationsthat people have cherry-pickedthan the 2080. it's a scenario that youcan't make happen but it doesn't meanit's universally true and the same goesfor igpusage and things like adobe premiere youcan absolutely make that scenario happenwhere it is significantly faster andit's great when it worksbut we've switched off of cpus with igpsin them because they just weren't goodenough for our workloadsand it's a really variable mixed bagwhen it gets to video editing becausethere's so many things that you can dothat each workload is going to behave alittle bit differently intel is alsoclaiming a time reduction of 27in photoshop subject selection and it isagainobsessing over amd in this comparisonrather than showing us a comparison ofintel versus past intel intel doesn'twant to show how much it's improvedagainst itselfit only wants to show how it's doingversus its newest competitor in themobile marketamd which has been completely absentfrom it for yearsthat's where it looks weak by intelbecause amdhasn't been in the mobile game for areally long timeit's not like desktop diy or serverwhere they instantly got out there infront of everyone with ryzen it took alittle while longer for the laptop stufftoreally start popping up in a way thatmeant something for andy's productsso the fact that intel is now recoilingfrom this justsix months later from amd's new presenceand laptopslooks like they've been hit a lot harderthan perhaps they actuallyhave been and that's all because of theperception that intel is creatingwith its overly defensive presentationwhere it can't stoptalking about amd's products in its ownintel product announcement presentationreflecting on our coverage approach tonvidia yesterdaywe noticed that it was completelyhardware and specs driven we wanted tolook back at how we covered nvidiabecause it felt like covering intel wasshaping up in a more critical anddifferent wayentirely and we wanted to really figureout why it felt that wayand in reflecting on that coverage wenoticed one key thingnvidia didn't mention amd at least thatwe could findonce in the entire coverage andcertainly not in a waywhich was as deriding as intel'smentions of amd uh nvidia did not thistime it's done it in the past butdidn't this time take unsettled jabs hadits competitorand instead focused on its own productandentirely on comparisons against itsprevious productsthere was not one amd gpu in thosegaming upliftcharts however useless some of them mayhave been because of theodd decision to scale the y-axis onpixelsthey still didn't show a competitor soit was entirely marketedagainst itself and that's where the thedifference really emerges and thentoday we've got quotes from intel uhdirectlyknocking amd in a much more aggressivefashion and we'll play that backagain one more time unlike our imitatorsusing benchmarks like cinebench whichhas a reallyniche usefulness in real life we set forourselves a higher bar to ensurewe are really the best across industrybenchmarks so in this full quoteintel is saying that it has ascendedbeyond benchmarks it's moved into thegreater plain whereapple resides where things are built onmagic and unicornsand single button mice for example andit hasuh moved on to realistic and real-lifepresentations of how a product performsit then says that it is setting a higherbar to be the bestacross industry bench is that rightindustry benchmarks it's weird i thoughtthey were just saying benchmarks werebadanyway they're trying to be the bestacross industry benchmarksbut also only imitators use benchmarksuh further still we would actually agreewith intel that cinebench is of limitedusefulness we eliminated it from ourofficially published benchmarking suitemany years agothat's because we replaced it withthings which represent a very similartype of workflowthe processor is leveraged almost theexact same wayexcept in a more widely used set ofapplications those applications and ourbenchmarks would include things likeblender which is now used across thegames industryincluding by epic games who is assistinginuh promoting blender in the very leastlately it's also usedin cinema and in 3d and animationworkloadsso blender is one of the ones we'vereplaced cinebench withwe also added v-ray by chaos group andthat one has grown in popularity overthe years as wellso these are widely used they are alsobenchmarksif you can use them in such a fashionthat one could call it a benchmarkbenchmarking is ultimatelyjust the process of taking devices andcomparing themto one another with some form ofquantifiable datasome objective process that isrepeatable and produces a useful numberout the end of itintel is trying to stretch this phrasebenchmark in away that makes it seem like it is onlyfor completely unrealistic syntheticscenarios but in fact benchmarks can beboth syntheticand real world so while intel is busyyelling at pigeons about how many moresoldiers its cpus can drawi need more soldiersamd has been working on producingcinebench numbersand although both of those are oflimited usefulness for most peoplethe one thing we can extrapolate awayhere is that cinebenchis at least something you can compareacross the platform andmore importantly cinebench is not thatdifferentfrom how blender and v-ray behave soeven if you're nota cinema 4d user which most people arenot intel's 100 correct on thatyou may very well be a user ofthings that are tile-based renderingapplications and those would scalepretty similarly in general furtherstill the bigger point here before wecan even get into product specs todayunfortunatelyis intel's name callingreferring to amd as imitators this isjust pettyand it looks weak and defensive amddid steal intel's entire chipsetand cpu naming convention fortunatelyintel has also like it has withbenchmarksascended past the use of names that arelegible by humansand towards things like 11 857 g7 orwhatever it was doesn't really matter noone's gonna remember it anywayso years ago amd decided tosteal intel's chipset and cpu namesbecauseit needed some way to communicate orconveyto the market that this product matchesthat incumbent's productintel's product in this categorybut until amd goes back to 14 nanometersand starts adding pluses to the end ofitit's not really an imitator andthis is also dangerous glass house andstones territory to get into for intelwhere what happens the instant thatintel starts playing around withmulti-chip modulesor glue as they called it previouslydoes that then make intelthe imitator of amd uh ultimatelythey're both trying to sell a productand we'd really like it if bothcompanies would focus on selling theirown damn productinstead of throwing stones at the guyacross the pondthe biggest oddity though is that inintel's crusadefor real world performance it is stillshowing thingswhich are actually just quantifiablebenchmarks they're literally benchmarksbut intel is trying to twist the wordsin a way where it doesn't quite seemlike that for examplewhen showing object selectionperformance or premier scrubbingperformanceintel is leaning heavily on the phrasingreal worldworkloads real life scenarios intel thenproduces numbersat the end of it after running acontrolled set ofwe'll call them tasks that's a benchmarkso it's just it's literallythat is exactly what benchmarking isthat's the stuff we already do and manyother reviewers by the wayare capable of running such tests soblanket statements aboutunlike some people who are usingbenchmarkswe are beyond that intel is castingdoubton all controlled testing herebut what's actually happening is thatintel is refuting its own pointto the nth degree about benchmarks beinguseless or benchmarks being inaccurateto real-world performance and then itgoes onand presents benchmarks and it talksabout benchmarks and it talks about howit's trying toachieve the highest bar in benchmarkingand get the highest real worldperformance benchmark results soultimately what's happeningis intel is tearing down its own brandcredibility anddamaging the trust that reviewers thatcustomersthat viewers who might not even want tobuy the stuff but are just interestedfrom afarit damages the trust that all of thesegroups of people havein what intel is saying and that's a badthing even just small examples like thischartfrom page 4 of its 100 plus pageslideshowyou can see amd here offers a baseline1.0 performancewhile intel offers plus 28 plus 67and 4x it's likeit's like it seems intentional certainlythe new logo from intel is allpsychology drivenso you get this weirdtrying to tweak the numbers to such anextent that you're actually changingthe decimal places and the multipliersand the unitsby which you are comparing things 1.0looks awfully small compared to plus 28why why not 100128 if you're gonna do that comparisonwhy not intel versus intel why don't wedo thatif intel does intel new versus intel oldhow does it present that data that's thereal question for this one4x where does that come from why have weswitched to a multiplierinstead of percentages and why notwhy not like 4.0 5.0 whatever 1.28whatever the case may bethat's enough ranting about intel'sterrible approach to a productpresentationwe'll talk briefly about the actualproduct specs unfortunatelywe were so busy pausing the video every30 secondsthat it it became difficult to gauge howwe should approachthe content so we decided to focus onthe thing intel needs to actuallyimprovewhich was all the stuff a second ago anduh then split the last bitfor the actual announcements this isintelyou could learn a lot from the waynvidia is doing presentations don'tlearn from amdthey actually do prettyuh pretty petty presentations as well wewouldn't reallyrecommend looking at them for guidancebut uh that would make you an imitatoranyway so we wouldn't want that so let'sget into the real news thoughthey have a lot of stuff to look at fromblock diagrams to technical informationonvolt frequency curves things like thatthat's all more architectural stuffwe are interested in it but it's notgoing gonna be the focus today becausethe focus todaywas intel's positioning and marketingand now we're just gonna look at theproductspec sheets and information so here's ablock diagram of one of the processorsthe new cpus will scale up to four coreseight threadsat 4.8 gigahertz max for single threadand will include pcie gen 4 supportthe gen 4 support is primarily usefulfor higher speed ssds but couldpotentially prove useful for gpuattachmentthat said the pcie bandwidth differencesshould be relatively minor when it comesdown to actualgraphics throughput but we'll have totest things and see how it goesthe more important difference ismarketing sadly and having pcie gen4on the box will actually be meaningfulfor theless informed buyer the graphicssolution is branded asiris xe in this block diagram and hosts96 eu's at the fully built version powermanagement includes updates to dvfswhich is justa volt frequency scalar pretty much allthe modern processorsdo some form of dbfs next up here's theproduct spec sheetintel has moved beyond tdp which isactually a good thingand it spent a while tearing down tdp asa measurement of anything usefulso hopefully it removes that metricelsewhere tooif it really believes this instead intelis providing a power range which wethink isfar better for especially its diyenthusiast products if it goes thisdirection in the futureand it is showing the power saving cpusoperating in the7 to 15 watt range and the higher endcpus in the 12 to 28 watt rangethis is actually an approach that we canget behind assuming it'saccurately tested obviously and isa little bit less confusing for mostpeople than tdp where you havea short range and a long range powernumber that may or may not align withthe tdp number although the longer termtao expiry one typically does align oneto one with itthe cpus are the i7 eleven eight fiveseveneight eight five g seven we'll leavethat mistake in there because it isrealistic benchmark intel's looking forreal world scenarios to promote itsproducts anywaynormally we would cut a mistake likethat and just resay it but that was agenuine oneand at this point it's probably arealistic thing to encounterso the 1185 g7 is at the top of thestack it's four cores eight threadsintel has made its naming significantlymore confusing even beyond just thoseletters and numbers thoughbecause now its i3 cpus are listed asfour core eight thread ortwo core four threat the i5 cpus runfour core eightas do the i7s and we also like thatintel has decided to listmaximum all-core turbo and will givethem credit for no longer shying awayfrom that metric the highest single coreat 4.8is noteworthy and is what willcontribute meaningfully to intel'sability to combatamd in this space the graphics coresalso look significantly improvedin a way which may finally move igpsaway from something like 720pgames and into something actually usefulit's just a shame that after all thistalk all the architecture informationall the technical information inteldecidedthat it was going to build a biggerstory out of its name callingthan its own product the imitatorsstatement was the one that reallystarted to really set the tone that wasat five minutes into the presentationand that was the tone that we had forthe entire rest of the presentationintel when people are watching yourpresentationsand within five minutes you call yourcompetitornames and then go forth to contradictyourself several timesforget your own product name and referto the competitor's productso many times that i a non-laptop cpureviewerlearn the competitors names before yoursthat's not the way you should bepresenting a product this isa bad precedent to set andthis this could have all been veryinteresting and useful and we would havebeen happy to cover the architecturalinformationas we often do however in this case withan air time that is generally limited toaround 30 minutes max for us at leastwe decided that the more interestingstorywould be the one of how intel manages tokeep flubbing its deliveryof new products even when they actuallylook competitivewhen the product is good you don't needto do screwy things to market itjust market the damn product how manytimes nowhave i had to get on camera and say thisspecificallyabout intel or amd it's always those twomost recentlynvidia absolutely with the rtx launch in2018we grilled them for that but latelythough intel has beenon the receiving end of this discussionthe most uh amd is starting to learnit'shired some new people who believe inthis approach so that's goodintel has people who believe in theapproach we're not sure what's happeningbut it's such a big company that there'sa lot being lost in the corporate messso anyway we couldn't find a singleinstance uh beyondthe one of the full product name beingcalled out most of the time it wastruncated and even if there's one morehidden in there somewhere that we didn'tfindthat's still like seven or eight fortyeight hundred u full product namereferencesto intel's one which is just silly souh intel probably time to work on thenames probably time to work on themarketingbut the product stack is at leastlooking promisingthis is a place where intel canseriously recover from amdwe would suspect that this should besomething actually worthconsidering a purchase of tiger likethat is in the laptop and portable spaceparticularly for business use somaybe we'll review one typically wedon't but who knows we might look intothemthat's it for this one thanks forwatching subscribe for as always you canwatch the roundup of the nvidia newsfrom yesterday as well if this stuffinterests youand uh you can go tostore.camerasnexus.net if you'd like topick up a wireframe mousematmodmats or other stuff from our storewe'll see you all next time

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